To be, or not to be... a vegetarian?!

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Re: lets go through the drive-thru and pick up a carcass to eat

Replied to: lets go through the dr...
By this logic, we should all be against the worms. After all, they are only slithering idly by as we writhe through life just waiting to chew through our box and devour what's left.
Posted on: 01-25-2008, 7:54 AM
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Vegetarianism

How exactly is it that the way we kill the animals now is worse than any other way? It is probably the best and quickest way. I don't think we torture them.

We are meant to be omnivores. Plain and simple.

Also, what makes being a vegetarian any better? You are still eating living organisms. The characteristics of life are homeostasis, adaptation, growth, response to stimulit, ability to reproduce, metabolism and organizations. A plant has all of these characteristics, so, by definition, you are eating a living organism. Mot a ta mere.
Posted on: 01-11-2008, 4:50 PM
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Biology

Mmm, touchy subject.
Humans are designed to eat meat. Our gut is designed to digest meat, and we are designed to eat plants. Look at our teeth. We have molars, to chew up difficult and hard plants, sharp teeth to rend flesh, and incisors to break apart Legos-I mean begin the vegetable process.
I don't think giving up meat altogether is a great thing, and certainly not going vegan. But limiting your contact with meat to free-range poultry, Kosher beef, etc. isn't a bad way to stay healthy and prevent some awful mistreatments of animals.
Limiting your meat intake in general isn't so bad, either. I prefer to have only a couple meals a week that contain chicken or fish, and maybe one or two a month that contain beef or pork. (Actually, I don't eat beef anymore. It makes me ill.) This isn't a bad lifestyle, and you can easily get your proteins and vitamins from things like beans, cheese, nuts, and tofu (if you're into that).
In general, I don't think that being a vegetarian is a bad thing. If you can still buy your cheeses and grains from whole foods stores that cater to the ecologically minded, great. If not, you're being a bit of a hypocrite. Cows and chickens can still suffer, even if they aren't being killed.
And going vegan, is, in my opinion, just dangerous. It's hard to get the neccessary protein, and most vegans I've met either look undernourished, or they're fat from too many carbohydrates.

So yeah. I'm an omnivore, although I may get a bit more salad and bread than shrimp and steak. I think it just makes for healthier eating.
Posted on: 01-02-2008, 2:27 PM
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Re: Re: lets go through the drive-thru and pick up a carcass to eat

Replied to: Re: lets go through th...
How do you humanely slaughter? yes there are some places that don't keep animals in cages for their entire lives or inject them with chemicals. yes these places are better than the places that do use cages and chemicals, ect. But still. how do you humanely slaughter?

As for the point that animals are hurt when plants get harvested: yes, absolutely true. I am not trying to defend the practices of agricultural corporations. I think that growing food for yourself, as was suggested, is a step in the right direction. I'm not sure if this possible for everyone because everyone doesn't have land to do it on, although if we all share, I'm sure there will be plenty of land and food to go around.

Another suggestion, besides growing your own food, would be eating food that is going to waste anyway. Grocery stores throw away lots of food everyday. Individuals do as well. Sometimes a tomato has a soft squishy spot on it. Nobody is going to buy that tomato when they can buy a tomato without the spot for the same price. So that perfectly edible tomato with a little spot on it gets tossed. Sometimes we go out for dinner and the waitress comes and takes away the food we couldn't finish or didn't quite like. Meanwhile plenty of people don't have anything to eat. But that doesn't seem to concern us we go on spending money at these stores that throw away loads of food, and buying meals we only half-finish. One way to not support this is to eat the wasted food, the tomato with the little spot. It's sitting there in the dumpster behind the store, ready to be taken, washed, and eaten, all for free (i guess the trade off is that you might smell a little bit from going through the dumpster). When we do buy food, the least we can do is get a to-go box and have the food we didn't finish for lunch the next day. There are probably a lot more ways to make the most out of the abundant resources we have. I'd be glad to hear any suggestions. Maybe if we stop wasting food, we could give the money we have left over to people that don't have any food, that don't have food-filled dumpsters. I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

Posted on: 01-02-2008, 2:08 PM
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Re: lets go through the drive-thru and pick up a carcass to eat

Replied to: lets go through the dr...
Not all meat comes from places like that. If you want to eat meat from animals that were humanely raised and slaughtered, buy Kosher meat. There are options. It's not like our ancestors killed animals more humanely when they hunted them. I would think that being killed by an arrow would be a very painful experience.
Posted on: 12-29-2007, 10:09 PM
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Re: Re: Harvest time = dead bunnies! Oh my!

Replied to: Re: Harvest time = dea...
This is all based on some assumption that humans are above being part of nature. What seems to be going around is that we, as the 'top of the food chain', are somehow ABOVE doing what a coyote or bear or any predator does.

What we do is natural, what we synthesize is a natural process of our interaction with our environment. Human beings are a part of nature, not above it. If we harvest and kill these animals, this is not against the grain of nature. It is not an abomination of the natural order.

It is a human activity and, as we as humans are animals, it is completely natural.

Human beings are a part of nature and the things they do are bloody natural. When a monkey makes a dam in a small stream out of his own poop, he contaminates water, stems the flow, and generally F's up everyone's good time. This is no different than our plants and factories generating waste that accrues in the atmosphere.

It is not wrong. It is what we do. Humans' self-importance does not cover the fact that they can, like all animals, also become extinct, also evolve.

To say killing to indulge one's taste is selfish is like saying no, I won't take a better job, because every penny I earn is one less for my neighbor. The fact is, we are selfish and there is nothing wrong in that. The stigma surrounding selfishness is unwarranted and against our nature.

There is no need to pretend to be deities. You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals.
Posted on: 12-26-2007, 10:46 PM
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Re: Harvest time = dead bunnies! Oh my!

Replied to: Harvest time = dead bu...
I think part of understanding a vegetarian's beliefs coincides with your ability to understand them at all. There are many vegetarians and they all have different beliefs. In the case of vegetarians who are Jains (reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) they generally believe in killing the least amount of organisms they can to sustain their own life. Many Jains where sheets over their mouths to avoid kill airborne organisms and sometimes sweep the ground they walk on to avoid stepping on any organisms as well. These are obviously, in some regard, extremist beliefs.

Sure, we have all stepped on an ant or killed a fly. Was I wrong to? Yes, I was--I am not afraid to admit it. Here in lies the question, do you not feel that you have no divine right or reasonable justification for killing another animal? Do you not think to yourself and admit, yes I am wrong for doing that?

I have no justification to say, yes killing a chicken was necessary to sustain my life. We're at the top of the food chain and we're capable of realizing, all of us, that there are other ways to sustain our life without the unnecessary killing of animals. Many of us are LIVING proof that you do not need to kill to sustain your own life. If you don't eat a chicken, the human race doesn't devolve in any way. The act is selfish. You omnivores in the world, provide me some real justification that what you do is necessary for your survival.
Posted on: 12-26-2007, 8:34 PM , Last edited: 12-26-2007, 8:37 PM
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Re: Harvest time = dead bunnies! Oh my!

Replied to: Harvest time = dead bu...
Yes, yes and yes. people always swat flies, step on bugs, kill cockroaches... but it's a bit different if one is mass harvesting animals and feeding them and injecting them with chemicals for the sole purpose of raising them for human consumption, and kill them through pretty inhumane methods.
Posted on: 12-26-2007, 8:22 PM
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Harvest time = dead bunnies! Oh my!

Vegetarians who say they do it for love of animals are disregarding the amount of lives lost when their vegetables ripen. Unless you grow your own food in your own yard without killing one organism, don't talk about a regard for all life. Ever stepped on an ant? Ever killed a fly? Have you ever, in your life, taken something's life?

How big does a life have to be before it is worth defending? Is a baby worth less than a 2,000 lb japanese model named Oroku Saki?
Posted on: 12-26-2007, 4:23 PM
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Re: lets go through the drive-thru and pick up a carcass to eat

Replied to: lets go through the dr...
If i tasted good as a cow or chicken?

I'd be ok with it
Posted on: 12-26-2007, 1:02 AM
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